When I first posted about the matter, most people’s reaction was LOL.
The we thought it was just a random proposal, never going to be approved. Well, according to OMGUbuntu’s do0d, the GIMP has just have been said bye bye in favor of having just F-Spot to edit photos.
The rationale is pretty much the same of what we seen in my the proposal:
- the general user doesn’t use it
- its user-interface is too complex
- it’s an application for professionals
- desktop users just want to edit photos and they can do that in F-Spot
- it’s a photoshop replacement and photoshop isn’t included by default in Windows…
- it takes up room on the disc
Even if I can agree about Gimp being complex and targeted to professionals, I can’t see f-spot as a good enough replacement.
Couldn’t we just port Paint.NET to Mono and use that instead? Ops.. ![]()
I’ll repost the integral, temporary, non-definitive, not-to-be-taken-seriously gobby notes of the meeting:
Not as simple as:
http://www.piware.de/2009/11/you-know-that-you-are-in-the-u-s/
* Step 1: Ditch the GIMP
* Step 2: ???
* Step 3: PROFIT!so:
1. Game selection. Can we choose fewer, better games by default, especially ones that include a social component?
- robert_ancell’s guess at the best group to pick from are:
- (./) Aisleriot – though I worry it has too many variants for users to know what to play
- ACTION: djsiegel to do a UI review
- Chess* – Old fashioned and well known. Too complex, i.e. will the average user know the rules or would an experienced player be happy to seek it out through the software store? – http://www.airbagindustries.com/archives/airbag/spaceman.php
- Needs telepathy network support.
- Pick a dumber AI for default
- GBrainy – “Brain” games are very popular at the moment. Interface and puzzles seem a little complicated when I tried it. Needs improved name in menu e.g. “Brain Exercise”.
- (./) Mahjongg – Simple visual matching solitaire. Most highly rated in GNOME Games survey. Good game for children?
- Mines – Simple rules and highly addictive. Been a popular game on Windows for years.
- (./) Sudoku – Does Sudoku have lasting popularity now it has been around for a number of years? – popular, but hard to maintain and buggy (timing)
- (./) Tetris – Highly rated in survey. The GNOME Games version is now in clutter and may cause performance problems on various systems. – buggy(??)
- Tetrinet as an alternate?
- Maybe community contests, a la the wallpaper project, to get contributers to make games for future inclusion
- Perhaps coordinate with existing compos like PyWeek / TIGSource which regularly churn out quality games (mrooney is happy to help here)
- we can count on clutter for games
- Look into providing access to online games, like Facebook (Farmville)
- ACTION: fagan to investigate soduko telepathy integration
- ACTION: robert to own the selection for lucid+1
- Look better
- Integrate with telepathy
- Work with upstreams
- A domino game. Never implemented.
- Some educational (but funny) physics games? Test Numpty Physics. <- That rules! It to easy to learn.2. Can we include a video editor by default?
- (Collabora is supportive of Ubuntu using pitivi, and this seems a good and usable choice to me.)
- Approach Collabora about rename and whether we can count on them for support.
- simple use case of opening a video and using the timeline is hard to achieve (usability needs to be improved)
* would be cool if cheese had video
- Openshot
- Design team to look at the UI of pitivi and/or Openshot3. Is it time to move off the Gimp to make room for other apps? The Gimp is a showcase for the power of FOSS, but also is complex, takes up a lot of room, and basic photo editing tasks are taken up by F-Spot.
- Gimp isn’t a good first experience for new users, really for hardcore editors
- mt points out that leaving it on the CD isn’t actually that conducive towards its goals, we need better marketing of the Gimp towards non-Ubuntu users
- This could be accomplished with a “staff picks” section in Software Center, to present awesome applications to end users when they are not installed by default. (Since installing an app by default should not be the only way to give it attention).
- Make mixes on the Software Center (“Gimme the graphic designer package”) The SWEET Suite
- Most people get by with F-Spot and even eog for rotating images
- switch on F-spot as default viewer -> currently sloooow to open and does not do nice folder browsing – some editing tools are fiddly (eg: soft focus and red eye reduction. Flip does not provide any controls to the user; arbitrarily flips vertically. No obvious Undo).
- We have read many complaints about a lack of simple crop app (or nautilus-action).
- ACTION: Remove the Gimp from default install (djsiegel is concerned about removing an exemplar app from the default install), use eog for default viewing with “Open in F-Spot” prominently for editing (dbl is going to drive the photo experience)
- ACTION: design team to look at the f-spot interface, looking for inconsistencies with other apps (e.g. editing functions)4. Overall application selection. Can we look through each category and discuss if we have the right apps in place by default.
* remove synaptic by default?
* Add a simple backup app like BackInTime
* (I missed this session, but I’m the maintainer of a simple end-user-focused backup program called Deja Dup: https://launchpad.net/deja-dup)5. run through seeds
6. All Mono, All the time <- irony
alacarte?
tsclient/vinagre: one is being merged into the other (confusing in menu to have two in the menu for essentially the same purpose)
- ACTION: robert_ancell to investigate when/if vinagre replaces tsclient
What about a selection of nautilus plugins for simple+common actions?
An util add for nautilus is the plugin nautilus-md5sum to check the integrity of ISOs. <- not a good idea, would take startup time for all users and slow nautilus for no stong win. Not at all, is light and very useful. In fact we want users to check iso images MD5sum, but there is no simple way to do it without a terminal.Usually an standar user doesn’t want to use a terminal.keep rhythmbox for lucid
Using Empathy, have a new systray icon when a message has came, is possible? Like pidgin.
Oh, they’ll keep Rhytmbox.
Perhaps they should have ditched f-spot, and mono for taking up too much space, and included Gthumb http://gthumb.sourceforge.net/.
Poor Ubuntu, torn into pieces by Win7 first, and now this.
Hopefully Gnome3 will not be included in Lucid. That would be a total disaster.
@jezra
Gthumb is really one of the best image viewers + simple editor. Comparing irfanview with linux alternatives gthumb is as close as it can get. f-spot slow & bloated.
@hansboit
It was officially announced that definitely gnome3 won’t be included in Lucid. BTW, gnome devs still consider gnome shell not stable enough to be included in next release..
@Stefano Forenza
There is already Paint.Net port called Paint.Mono:
http://code.google.com/p/paint-mono/
http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2007/Dec-21.html
https://launchpad.net/~xmlich02/+archive/ppa
@Tomas: the Paint.Net port wasn’t really working that good (at least according to what Icaza wrote at the time). Now it may be better, but if you look in the google code repository you gave me, you’ll see the last commit is almost one year ago. It doesn’t really seem an active project (maybe they just gave up?) and by the way it apparently uses Windows.Form not GTK.
paint-mono uses WinForms because Paint.NET uses WinForms. It was picked for a quick-and-dirty port to help stress-and-bug-test the WinForms implementation of Mono. And a port was required because Paint.NET makes lots of Windows-only calls into things like user32.dll before anyone asks.
And as for the GIMP, personally I’d be sad to see it go. FYI though, the combined space taken up by GIMP (76.3MiB for gimp, gimp-data, gimp-help-common, gimp-help-en) is 50% more than the space taken by both F-Spot and Tomboy (plus Mono) combined (about 49 MiB in Karmic) so it really *does* do badly on size comparisons. As to Gthumb, as has been explained more than once, replacement default apps NEED (mandatorily) to import data from their predecessors, and Gthumb doesn’t have that. It may not even be possible, given Gthumb has a totally different usage paradigm to F-Spot (Folder-browser, compared to F-Spot’s iPhoto-like albums approach). I’m not saying one is better than the other, as I use neither – but any F-Spot replacement NEEDS to import existing metadata that users have invested their time into.
Oh, and Paint.NET was once, but is no longer, Free Software, so paint-mono relies on an obsolete version of the source when it was MIT/X11. Not worth packaging, at any rate.
The GIMP is in from totally different league than F-Spot. The GIMP is meant as a professional image editor, not as a photo manager and quick-and-dirty red eye removal tool.
I agree on the decision, it makes a lot of sense. Most people I installed Ubuntu for never use it, if you do want to use it, you’re probably a more advanced user and you probably know how to install it.
Because it won’t be removed from the repositories. Some people make it appear like that with their outraged dents and blogs, but it will still be packaged. Don’t worry!
“FYI though, the combined space taken up by GIMP (76.3MiB for gimp, gimp-data, gimp-help-common, gimp-help-en) is 50% more than the space taken by both F-Spot and Tomboy (plus Mono) combined (about 49 MiB in Karmic) so it really *does* do badly on size comparisons.”
Your numbers are a bit off; mainly owing to the fact that space taken up by Ubuntu’s gimp-data package (http://ns2.canonical.com/karmic/graphics/gimp-data) is 6.4Mb, not 34Mb as “calculated” by Ubuntu developers.
Canonical has recently got a new employee.
An ex-Microsoft employee who does all sorts of crazy and stupid decisions.
Like using something that is not covered on a we-won’t-sue promise.
And is bloated compared to alternatives that are really free software.
For comparing you need to compare the size of the package uninstalled.
30MB for a quick note taking app and a little photo editor! Get real!!
They should remove Mono and all Mono-dependant programs immediatelly.
Which will be hard because they are infested now.
Silly article.
Ubuntu is not dropping GIMP – it is simply not including it in the standard install. If you want the GIMP, it is still going to be there in the repositories and will install with a couple of clicks.